David Crabill: Welcome to the Forrager Podcast, where I talk with cottage food entrepreneurs about their strategies for running a food business from home. I’m David Crabill, and today I’m talking with Elena-Maria Hert.
[00:00:12] But before we begin, I wanted to thank the sponsor of this episode, The Cottage Foodie.
[00:00:17] The founder, Matt Rosen, was recently on the show and shared that he was inspired to start The Cottage Foodie to help other bakers fulfill their dreams.
[00:00:25] The Cottage Foodie is an online directory that will expand your customer base and connect you with food enthusiasts not only across your own state, but around the country as well. It’s the go to resource for consumers everywhere seeking unique, locally made treats.
[00:00:39] By joining The Cottage Foodie, you’ll also get to connect and network with an exclusive community of cottage food producers who are passionate about running their food businesses from the comfort of home.
[00:00:49] Don’t miss out on this incredible opportunity to showcase your talents and grow your cottage food business. To join The Cottage Foodie and learn more, go to forrager.com/cottagefoodie.
[00:01:02] All right. So I have Elena on the show today. She lives in Billings, Montana and sells European baked goods with her cottage food business, European baked delights. Elena grew up in Romania and moved to the United States in 2021.
[00:01:16] She started sharing her baked goods with neighbors and they encouraged her to start selling them. Elena started her cottage food bakery in the summer of 2022 and she’s not shy to admit that her growth went slower than she expected. She mainly sells products that most people in her area aren’t familiar with, so it’s taken a long time to find and educate her customer base. It wasn’t until 2024 that she started to see significant growth in her business and now her persistence is paying off with her being fully booked with orders by the end of last year.
[00:01:47] In this episode, I really appreciated Elena’s honesty with sharing some of the challenges of starting a bakery from home, especially when you don’t find product/market fit.
[00:01:57] And with that, let’s jump right into this episode.
[00:02:02] Welcome to the show, Elena. Nice to have you here.
[00:02:06] Elena Maria Hert: Thank you for having me. I’m so happy that I’m finally here with you.
[00:02:11] David Crabill: I know. I know you’ve been following me for quite some time, and I’m glad to finally have you on the show.
[00:02:16] Elena Maria Hert: Yeah, thank you so much for the invitation.
[00:02:20] David Crabill: Well, I know you’ve been at this for a few years. Can you take me back to how it got started?
[00:02:27] Elena Maria Hert: It was in 2021 when we moved to Billings from Romania, and I started to bake a lot for all holidays, and I was sharing with my neighbors. Because we love to share and all of them, they were saying, why don’t you open a bakery? Why don’t you sell them? And I said, I can’t do that because I have no idea what are the rules, the laws and everything.
[00:02:58] So no, I’m not getting into that. One year later in 2022, I was bored, just staying home because I was staying home with, my daughter. She was, in 2022, she was uh, three years old. I was staying home with her and just spending time together and nothing else. And I wanted to do something else also.
[00:03:24] So, I started to, to research about the cottage food laws in Montana. This is how I found you I started to read all what you’re saying on your website and read the laws and I was researching what should I put on the menu and all that. So, I was still new. I didn’t have the courage to do it.
[00:03:47] I remember I, I read in one of your emails, you’re saying just start. Don’t wait to get the perfect product or the perfect menu. So yeah, I, I made a menu and I started only with friends and neighbors. And then in 2023, in January, I applied to open a company on LLC. Then in February, I applied for the cottage food license, and got that also. and yeah, from there, it’s history now.
[00:04:24] David Crabill: Right. So yeah, you’re fortunate because when you started this, at that point, Montana had their food freedom law in place. So it sounds like you started under the food freedom law.
[00:04:35] Elena Maria Hert: Yes,
[00:04:36] David Crabill: Yeah, so that made it really easy for you to start. But I know this is not the first time that you’ve started a food business.
[00:04:42] I saw that taking it way back, you started another one when you were living in Egypt. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
[00:04:51] Elena Maria Hert: yes, in Egypt in Cairo, is a big community of Romanians. I was missing uh, home food and, our baked goods, so this is how I started. And I said, well, if I make for me, then why don’t I share also with uh, the other Romanians? So, I made a Facebook page, a menu, and I just started to take orders and there I was making also, I was cooking, I was making food as well, not only baked goods, because you are allowed.
[00:05:24] even the, the Romanian embassy in Cairo made an order for our uh, national day and was one of my biggest orders while I was there. it was interesting. It was a good experience.
[00:05:41] David Crabill: Well, That’s cool. Obviously that was a side thing, but it was kind of surprising when at the beginning you were talking about how you didn’t have the courage to start your business in Montana, but you’d already started a business. So what was different the second time? Why were you so nervous to start the business in Montana?
[00:06:00] Elena Maria Hert: Because I know here in US I don’t know, laws are different and didn’t know anything about it. So that’s why I didn’t have the courage to start that. Plus when I was doing the research, I saw also that there were other cottage food bakers in Billings. So I said, Oh, well, if I start, then what I will not have any kind of success.
[00:06:28] David Crabill: Yeah, that self doubt is common with college food entrepreneurs. before we get into your, you know, full story here, I did want to go back to your background, because I know you grew up in Romania, and you have an interesting educational background. Can you talk about what you went to school for
[00:06:47] Elena Maria Hert: yes, I have a bachelor in management and business administration, and I have my master’s in uh, management and marketing in tourism.
[00:06:59] David Crabill: and what were you hoping to do with your career?
[00:07:03] I wanted to work in tourist, because after Egypt I lived in uh, Qatar as well for two years and a half, so I worked there for Qatar Airways. In the revenue management department as secretary. And then after two years I moved to flight analyst, but then I decided to go back home and Yeah, I ended there with working in tourism. I studied also accounting and I love working with numbers, Excel sheets, and all that. And then, in Romania, after going back From, uh, Qatar, I uh, worked also for Oracle, the American IT company. I was doing the, the payroll for Oracle Spain, but from Romania.
[00:07:53] So what you’re telling me is if you end up having any employees, the payroll side of that won’t be a problem.
[00:07:59] Elena Maria Hert: Well, I’ll have to learn how payroll is working here, because it’s different in each country. It’s not the same.
[00:08:08] David Crabill: Fair enough. Fair enough. So, um, Even though you were a little bit nervous about starting. The cottage food business here in the States. It sounds like the cooking side of it, the baking side of it was. Very familiar to you, is that correct?
[00:08:24] Elena Maria Hert: Yes, because I’ve been cooking and baking since I was little, with my mother, with my grandmother. I love to bake, to cook, to share with family, friends, and neighbors. This is how I grew up.
[00:08:40] David Crabill: And it sounds like you know, you held off on starting it for about a year. Then you finally decided to step in. So what was it like when you actually started to put yourself out there and sell your baked goods?
[00:08:52] Elena Maria Hert: In the beginning, I’ll I mean, I was expecting it to be way much better, but being new on the market, it’s taking time for people to know you, to find out about you, to try your baked goods and, to get recommendations. it took me a little bit, but luckily I had friends and family that they helped a lot with recommending me and ordering from me and sharing with others.
[00:09:21] So one of my, great customers in the beginning is my hairdresser. She, She helped me a lot. She was ordering from me and then she was, sharing my business information with her customers. I had a lot of help. And I, I want to thank all of them for doing this for me.
[00:09:42] David Crabill: So it sounds like, you know, you started very organically. The growth was slow at first. That’s very common and very normal and to be expected, but you said that you actually expected it to grow faster than that. And you also had previously said that you saw other people selling cottage food items in your area.
[00:09:58] So you thought maybe you wouldn’t get many orders. So can you just share a little bit more about. What your expectations were and were you disappointed at first?
[00:10:10] Elena Maria Hert: I know I said that there are, other cottage food bakers around in the area, but I was having higher expectations because what I’m selling are unique baked goods here in Billings and in Montana. Because I’m selling European baked goods that you don’t find anywhere else here.
[00:10:29] No other bakery is having them, no other cottage food bakery is making them. So when I started I thought that people will be more interested to try new things from a part of the world where they can’t go because they don’t afford to go there. Or maybe they’ve been there, but, now they are missing the, baked goods from Europe that’s why my expectations were a bit, a little bit higher.
[00:10:59] David Crabill: That is one of the risks, right? When we’re trying to find a niche and we’re trying to find products to sell, you want to differentiate yourself, but at the same time, if you’re selling products that people aren’t looking for or aren’t familiar with, then that can pose its own challenge into breaking into the market.
[00:11:16] So did you have like, A Romanian community or a European community that you found customers from initially, or were you just essentially trying to, introduce people to these baked goods?
[00:11:30] Elena Maria Hert: The Romanian community here is very small. we do have a lot of people from Europe, but I was trying to introduce these baked goods to Americans. me and my husband, we like to try new food or new desserts everywhere we go. That’s why I was thinking that bringing all this here, people would be more interested in trying them.
[00:11:59] David Crabill: Have you found that people are interested once they taste them or try them and discover them? Yes, some of them, yes.
[00:12:10] I’m just, wondering if you could share a little more specifics about what that looked like. when you said it was slow, what was it like, or what was the feeling like in the early days?
[00:12:20] Elena Maria Hert: I was having, weeks when I wasn’t getting any order. I even had months when I didn’t get any order I don’t know, years ago, somewhere during fall, September, October, I had weeks, months when I didn’t get anything. And then I had other weeks when I was getting three, four orders in the same time.
[00:12:45] David Crabill: I think that’s really helpful to recognize, because I know there are people listening to this or maybe in the same boat right now, or have gone through this, can you just like share, like, bring us fast forward to today, like what. What is your business like today in terms of orders and how much business you’re doing currently?
[00:13:04] Elena Maria Hert: So, Last year, in August, I had my first porch pop up. I was a little bit scared because I didn’t know how it will go, and I made in four hours more than I make in one month usually.
[00:13:22] David Crabill: And so that was your first porch pop up.
[00:13:24] Elena Maria Hert: Yeah, but I worked the whole week.
[00:13:28] David Crabill: Do you feel like there was a turning point in your business when things just started to fall into place or where you felt more recognized within your community?
[00:13:38] Elena Maria Hert: Yes, I think last year started to so the first year after I, opened the LLC and I started You know, everything on paper and it was so and so, but then from the second year, everything started to work a little bit better. Usually I get more orders during holidays for Easter, for Christmas, and even during summer.
[00:14:04] For example, two years ago during summer, everybody wanted pies, strawberry rhubarb pies, because I, I had them on the, on the summer menu. and then during fall was kind of dead. last year, during summer was so and so, while during fall was the peak, and then came Christmas, and in December, I sold in two weeks a lot.
[00:14:32] David Crabill: Obviously, you had a super slow growth process, and I’m just wondering what kept you going during that period of time, because it sounds like it was a very long time to a point where you had significant amount of orders.
[00:14:48] Elena Maria Hert: I really don’t know, I’m trying, I’m still trying to understand, because asking for feedback after customers pick up their orders. I allow one, two days, one week maybe. And then I ask them for feedback. And two years ago I had people saying, Oh yes, everything is tasting so good.
[00:15:10] Everything. Uh, We love them and will be your customers from now on. And we’ll order again. Well. Two years later, I didn’t hear from them anymore.
[00:15:21] David Crabill: Yeah, that is the one thing, right? What people say and what people do can oftentimes not be congruent with
[00:15:28] Elena Maria Hert: It’s, you know, It’s confusing me. That’s why I’m trying to make it clear that I don’t mind having a negative feedback as long as you are honest. And tell me, okay, I tasted this, but I don’t like it because it’s not what I like. And I would feel better like this. Then to tell me, yes, we loved it.
[00:15:51] And we’ll come back and we’ll be your customers from now on.
[00:15:54] David Crabill: This is a very common, Oftentimes people will say they love something and I’d say it’s not just. limited to the food industry, like in business in general, people will often have a great experience and say they’ll return as a customer, but then they don’t. Do you feel like you have gotten in front of those same customers again?
[00:16:16] Elena Maria Hert: Well, I’m sure they had the chance because I always. They are my followers, and on Facebook, because this is what I sell mostly, but nothing is happening, and even sometimes I wrote to some of them, and. No answer after that.
[00:16:33] David Crabill: Okay, I think there’s a couple of things that happen here, right? One of them is a lot of times, you know, you just might not be a top of mind for people, right? They might forget about you, and that’s very common. The other thing would be like if they say that they like something, but then they actually didn’t, you know, and they choose to buy from someone else.
[00:16:52] And it sounds like that might be happening here, and it might be because you, you know, are selling. Mostly European baked goods and maybe they just prefer more Americanized baked goods. That might be the case. When you were asking for feedback, how did you phrase it? I’m just, I’m just wondering if you, just said, tell me What you liked or were you really specifically trying to extract like constructive criticism from them?
[00:17:19] Elena Maria Hert: I’m asking how did you like your order, was everything okay, or sometimes did you like it or not. Please can you leave a review on my Facebook page or on Google let me know if everything was okay. I mean, I don’t know.
[00:17:39] David Crabill: Have you gotten any like negative or like less than stellar reviews online?
[00:17:45] Elena Maria Hert: No, this is the thing that I didn’t. If you look on my Facebook, I have only five star reviews.
[00:17:52] David Crabill: Yeah and I can kind of just see from your stuff that you obviously know what you’re doing and I’m sure all of your baked goods are at a very high standard you know you’re trying to sell to a lot of people that You know, they just might prefer buying American baked goods instead of European baked goods.
[00:18:12] And have you explored selling more American baked goods to try to cater to what people want?
[00:18:21] Elena Maria Hert: No, if I have to move to American baked goods, then I’m, I will not do it at all anymore.
[00:18:27] David Crabill: well, I did see you’ve sold a few right like you’ve sold pies And cupcakes, I believe
[00:18:35] Elena Maria Hert: Yes, Yes, and muffins and, but I wanted to make a combination, you know, to attract them. To try a little bit also in, to buy your American baked goods, but in the same time to try the European ones. So that’s why I kind a mix, I had a mix of uh, baked goods on the menu. But if you look this year, I updated the menu and I took out the American baked goods.
[00:19:02] I have only the pies, two pies, because they sell very good. People like them, so it’s not bothering me having them there. But my main reason why I started this was to share my home traditions, my country’s traditions, and European baked goods in general with the people from Billings, from Montana, from this community. I want people to try to see that there is something else. outside America, you know
[00:19:36] David Crabill: yeah, it totally makes sense And I actually really respect that and I think we’re seeing that it’s working right The challenge with doing a bakery, which is selling something that people are less familiar with, is it’s just going to take a longer time find your customers, to find the people who really resonate with your product, and then to get them used to buying different types of baked goods, right?
[00:19:56] I think we’re seeing that like you’ve started to turn a corner. It’s taken a couple of years, but it seems like you’re getting there where you had a lot of orders at the end of last year and we can expect that to just keep increasing. Right. So it’s like a balancing act, right? You’ve, provided some products that are more familiar to people to allow them to learn about you, but then you’ve stuck to what you’re passionate about.
[00:20:17] And, I think you’ve actually done a pretty good job of finding that balance. You know, it’s not, atypical for this process to take a few years for a business like yours. And we can only expect that your orders will just keep growing and increasing as more people learn about you.
[00:20:34] Elena Maria Hert: I hope so, because I really want them to try to see how food tastes in Europe as well. Because I know a lot of Americans don’t have the chance to travel outside U. S. Or not even outside their state. So, if I was in their place, if somebody would give me this chance, yeah, I’ll go for it. I mean, I have it right here in my city, why not to buy?
[00:20:58] David Crabill: But yeah, people are different and they understand different mentality, different taste, and it’s just taking time, as you are saying. I
[00:21:07] it also totally depends on where you are. Like I live in California and I know for a fact. That if you were where I am, your business would probably be doing phenomenally well, right? don’t know if you’ve experienced that in Montana, if you find people there are just less adventurous with the type of food they try.
[00:21:26] Elena Maria Hert: I think so, yes, they are less adventurous. And also I suppose you are living in a, in a bigger city, even Billings, even if Billings is the biggest city in Montana, it’s having only 100 something thousand people, while I’m coming from Bucharest with 2 million people.
[00:21:45] David Crabill: I feel like as your business grows, you’ll probably, you know, attract more people from a wider area and that’s where shipping would really be beneficial for your type of business. Cause you’ll, you sell very specific baked goods, right? And you’ll gather customers that are looking specifically for what you’re offering.
[00:22:04] And if you have the ability to ship, you’ll be able to, you know, find those people get them what they really want. Is shipping something that you’ve looked into?
[00:22:15] Elena Maria Hert: In fact, yes. I’m sad that I’m not allowed to ship to other states because I already have people asking me to send them some baked goods. I have somebody Some Romanians in Florida, in, Oregon. I have some friends that they worked with me at Qatar Airways and they moved to Texas. And they want also to order, but I’m so sad that I can’t really help with that and I would love to do it because as, as you said, yeah, it will be a very successful. business like that.
[00:22:55] David Crabill: Well, You’ll get there, I’m sure of it. um, We’ve obviously talked about how you focus on Romania and baked goods, but we haven’t really talked about exactly what you sell. Can you share a little bit about what your menu looks like today?
[00:23:08] Elena Maria Hert: this year I added to the menu the madeleines, three different types. Then I added some Italian chocolate hazelnut cookies. I have seven items from Romania. on my menu. I have a lot of uh, finger foods, like cookies or pastries.
[00:23:28] Cream puffs. I have also some uh, honey walnut pretzels. I have some Polish kolaczy cookies which are very popular between my customers. They love them. They are filled with strawberry jam. They love, my breads the traditional Romanian sweet bread and Slovenian bread, povitica. This is all what I left. I used to have more breads on the menu, but I left only these European ones. the pies, as I said, the strawberry and pretzel pie and banana cream pie are very popular. And then, during December and last month in February for Valentine’s Day, my chocolates were very popular. The small Dubai chocolates.
[00:24:18] David Crabill: That’s actually one of the things that I think is really fascinating about your business is um, you list on your website where your products come from or originate from, and a lot of it’s from where you’ve lived, right? And it’s kind of a, international menu in some ways. And I was trying to count and I, I saw at least 10 countries that are represented in your menu.
[00:24:41] I think that’s just a really cool thing about your business. Is that like intentional to try to make it super international?
[00:24:48] Elena Maria Hert: Yes, because I love traveling.
[00:24:51] David Crabill: And so some of these products, are they products that you discovered on your travels? Or if you like taking cooking classes in other, countries.
[00:25:00] Elena Maria Hert: No didn’t take any cooking classes. I have friends in different countries and Romanian friends that they moved to those countries. some recipes I got them from them and others, I just try them, discover them on the internet and try them. And they were having the right taste.
[00:25:21] David Crabill: I know you lived in Egypt for a while, but I didn’t see any products from Egypt on your menu.
[00:25:28] Elena Maria Hert: get there one day. but I just didn’t have time. I wanted to add some items, some baked goods on, uh, on my menu from Egypt as well, but when I posted the menu, I, it was such a short time because December I was full with the orders and holidays. January, I was kind of sick and I had to take a break to take care of my health.
[00:25:53] and also work on the new menu. Then I had to prepare also the menu for Valentine’s Day, so I didn’t really have time to add a lot. But, yeah, I, it’s on my list.
[00:26:07] David Crabill: You said you have like seven products from Romania. I’d imagine these are things that you grew up with. Which items are the most meaningful to you personally?
[00:26:18] Elena Maria Hert: The traditional Romanian sweet bread, cozonac, because this is something that everybody’s enjoying during Easter and Christmas in Romania. When you make it, it’s smelling so good in the house. So, Yeah, this is my, One of my childhood goods that I grew up with. And also the walnut cookies, nucci umplute. These are very popular in Romania and I grew up with them another one is the Christian pastries with Turkish delight, cornulețe. I mean, Everybody’s making them and we love them. The hard part is that some ingredients, I don’t find them here in Billings. So, I have to order a lot, from Amazon.
[00:27:09] David Crabill: I’m sure that affects your pricing to a large degree.
[00:27:12] Elena Maria Hert: Yes.
[00:27:13] David Crabill: So what are your products generally priced at right now? Like what are some of your most popular products and what do you sell them for?
[00:27:22] Elena Maria Hert: Usually, I sell them by uh, pound, so one pound is around $20. I tried to, bring them to the same price. Not all, because as I said, depends on the ingredients. But yeah, mainly the, finger food items are by pound and they are 20 a pound. Then the breads are 22 each and the pies they are 25.
[00:27:52] David Crabill: Yeah, I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but just looking at your products, they look like they’re really labor intensive, like much more than, say, a typical baked good from the States.
[00:28:04] Elena Maria Hert: Well, If you would know how much time is taking me to make only those walnut cookies, in order to make two pounds and a half of walnut cookies is taking me almost six hours.
[00:28:17] David Crabill: I mean, I can believe it. I just, from looking at the pictures, it looks like if I were to make them, it would probably take a couple days. I mean, that’s a long time to be spending on a product that, it sounds like you said the two and a half pounds of walnut cookies take six hours and you’re 50, correct?
[00:28:40] Elena Maria Hert: exactly, yes.
[00:28:42] David Crabill: does that mean that you’re essentially, I mean, even if that 50 was just straight labor, it would be like. Less than 10 an hour.
[00:28:53] Elena Maria Hert: I know sometimes with some of the things I have to make a compromise because you can’t have very high prices. Because then people will not buy at all. Anyway, I am sure that they, think that these prices are very high. I saw now that if I’m having, for example, I’m posting smaller amounts, like smaller boxes for lower prices, they sell more quickly than if I say I have one pound of something left and I want to sell the whole pound.
[00:29:30] David Crabill: Well, I’m just trying to figure this out in my head That six hours can’t all be active time because otherwise I would just say you wouldn’t be selling them at all because I don’t see how You could be making any money from selling the walnut cookies if they took that long to produce
[00:29:46] Elena Maria Hert: I told you with this I can’t make them more expensive than that because I have to make the, yeah, sometimes for one hour they have to stay in the fridge also, but the dough has to sit in the fridge. But I have to make the dough, then I have to shape from the dough small balls. same size, I have to measure them, yeah?
[00:30:10] Then I have to put them in the in the shape that I have which I use it on the stove. I make a mess, a big mess on my stove when I make them, but this is another story. Then I have to shape the edges for all of them and then I have to fill them and then I have to put powdered sugar on top.
[00:30:33] David Crabill: Well, I definitely understand you there’s a point which you just can’t sell them for more but also There’s a point at which it doesn’t make sense to sell a product, right? Just because it may be the price you can sell it at and the amount of time. Or the cost to make it is just too great. So are there products that you feel like you don’t make a whole lot of money from them, but you just want to sell them personally? Because you want to share them with your community.
[00:31:01] Elena Maria Hert: Yeah, the walnut cookies and the bread, the Romanian bread. The Romanian bread is not only the labor, but the ingredients are expensive because I have Turkish delight, which I have to order it from Amazon. In Romania you can find it everywhere, in any shop, but here not really. Then I have rum like rum extract and I use a lot and it’s not very cheap here. I have raisins.
[00:31:32] I have a lot of eggs, I have for one bread, I have to use around four eggs plus another one for the top so, yeah, the ingredients are costing a lot, plus the labor.
[00:31:49] David Crabill: Well, So clearly there are some products you’re not making as much money on. Which products do you feel like are profit centers for you?
[00:31:58] Elena Maria Hert: The cheesy sticks. What else? The pretzels, the honey walnut pretzels cream puffs, and madeleines.
[00:32:09] David Crabill: Yeah, because that’s pretty typical, In any business. There’ll be some products you don’t make as much money on, there’ll be some products you do make a lot of money on, but then you have the diversity of products to attract the number of customers that you need.
[00:32:22] Elena Maria Hert: Exactly.
[00:32:24] David Crabill: it sounds like you kind of hit a turning point last summer when you did the porch pop up. What was your business looking like up to that point? were you selling at events? Were you just doing custom orders from home? What was it looking like?
[00:32:38] Elena Maria Hert: I was making only custom orders from home. I never went to any events because I have my daughter well, she started last year in September, she started kindergarten, but until then she was just home with me, so I didn’t really want to leave home. My husband is working a lot. He’s off during the weekends, but otherwise he’s working a lot.
[00:33:04] So, I didn’t really have too much time, and I didn’t want to go out of the house to go to farmer’s market. I tried to, but here, the farmer’s market, already full with vendors, and it’s very hard to get in. You, You can uh, put yourself on the waiting list, but you never know if you’ll get there or not.
[00:33:25] David Crabill: Because the waiting list last summer, when I asked, was about, 12 people for food vendors? So, Yeah, that’s why I said, okay, we don’t go to any markets, let’s try to do a porch pop up, because it’s here at home, it’s easy to set up everything, and I have my daughter here, she doesn’t have to go anywhere
[00:33:52] Elena Maria Hert: Are you going to be trying to get into the farmer’s market every year? Is that like a goal for you?
[00:33:57] David Crabill: No, not anymore.
[00:34:00] And with the porch pop up, how did you promote that? Like how it sounds like it was very successful. Like how did you get people to come to it?
[00:34:08] Elena Maria Hert: I announced one week in advance that I’m planning to have a porch pop up on my Facebook page. I sent messages to all my neighbors, my friends And then I uh, even posted If they have specific baked goods that they would like to find at the pop up. Some of them answered, they left their comments, and I took into consideration what they said.
[00:34:36] Also, I had to consider what was okay for me. Time wise, because I have to take into consideration the labor, and how much it’s taking. And then, from the, in the week with the porch pop up from Monday until Sunday, until Saturday, sorry, when I had it. I posted every day something and I reminded them about the pop up and I gave the address and all the baked goods that they will find and I posted pictures with the baked goods and I made a raffle to make it more interactive, more attractive for customers. And here my husband helped me. He’s helping me quite a lot with ideas. We are talking and sharing ideas.
[00:35:27] David Crabill: How many pop ups have you done at this point?
[00:35:30] Elena Maria Hert: Two, I had one in August and one in October. One for summer and one for fall. I wish I could have made another one in December, but obviously the weather here in Montana is not allowing you that.
[00:35:44] David Crabill: And how many do you plan to do this year?
[00:35:47] Elena Maria Hert: Honestly, I didn’t plan yet. I don’t know, maybe at some point I was thinking to have one each month during summer because the weather will be nice. but we’ll see.
[00:36:02] David Crabill: Well, I saw like on December 11th, you put out a post that said you were fully booked out for the month and that wasn’t from a pop up. So are people just Buying from your website, are people communicating directly with you, how are you like promoting these orders that people are doing? Like, are they custom orders?
[00:36:24] Do people buy certain boxes or sets of things from you?
[00:36:29] Elena Maria Hert: Usually they see on Facebook the menu and they choose from the menu. I want one pound of this, another half pound of that because on the menu they are posted by pound, but in my posts I’m saying that I’m uh, also uh, making all kind of mix, because I’m making platters, I think you, you can see on my, on my page, I have platters with all kind of uh, mix of baked goods So I can put half pound of this, another half pound of that, and, you know, make you a big platter. Depends for what they want. If they just want to try, they will tell me, I want this bread and I want a pound or half pound of this. If they are ordering for an event or something they will like platters. And I’m open to any kind of combination or mixes they want to make from my menu, as long as it is on my menu.
[00:37:33] I mean, I can take into consideration for the future whatever they, uh, they would like and is not on the menu, but for the moment. I’m concentrating and selling only what’s on the menu.
[00:37:47] David Crabill: Do you feel like people are buying for family gatherings or events, or are most people just buying for themselves?
[00:37:57] Elena Maria Hert: From what I saw until now, most people bought for themselves. I would love to see more customers buying for events because I love to make platters. I love to have variety and to offer them variety.
[00:38:14] David Crabill: So you’re doing these orders, direct orders you’re doing the porch pop ups. Have you done any kind of pop ups or events elsewhere to get the word out?
[00:38:25] Elena Maria Hert: No, not yet. I didn’t. Because I, I know you, you need to have a contract and I, I didn’t know anybody anywhere, so I, I didn’t try to go.
[00:38:36] David Crabill: Do you feel like the main limitation there is just the fact that you have a young girl at home? I guess that’s something you’re eventually going to try to do.
[00:38:45] Elena Maria Hert: Yeah, I was, I was thinking of trying that, and I was talking to my husband about this. maybe this year we’ll, we’ll try to go out.
[00:38:55] David Crabill: I mean, it’s actually pretty incredible how far you’ve come with just doing direct orders. The fact that you haven’t put yourself at any like public events yet. you’ve cleared the pretty good job of getting your word out, getting customer recommendations, putting yourself out on social media.
[00:39:12] I would only imagine that like, if you actually started selling at a public event, That your business would grow even more as people learn about you more.
[00:39:22] Elena Maria Hert: Yeah, that’s true, and I was thinking at some point to attend uh, There is an event every year in November Food and Gift Festival, it’s called. It’s a three days event, and in order to attend this kind of event uh, need to bake a lot, and I can’t bake for three days, because it’s from the morning, from nine o’clock until What, six o’clock, four o’clock in the afternoon.
[00:39:50] So in order to bake enough to have for three days and still have the, the baked goods fresh, it’s kind of impossible for me. I’m only one.
[00:40:04] David Crabill: Well, Maybe we get to the point where, you get someone on payroll. Right. Um,
[00:40:10] Elena Maria Hert: Yeah, why not?
[00:40:12] David Crabill: I see that you. You know, You started this in May of 2022, and then you registered as an LLC in 2023, but it looked like you changed your business name in 2023. Is that correct?
[00:40:26] Elena Maria Hert: Yes, because that was a, the name of the page, well, the page was made in 2020. When, uh, I started this idea of a food Influencer slash blogger or something like this. I started with Instagram account and then I made the Facebook page as well in 2020 and I left it like that until 2023 when I decided to open the LLC and I said I have to change the name to make it something that represents what I’m doing, what I’m selling. I mean, I want it to be more specific.
[00:41:08] David Crabill: What was the page called up to that point?
[00:41:11] Elena Maria Hert: Mom Cooking with Love.
[00:41:13] David Crabill: Yeah. And so this was a page not really to sell products, right? It was just to share information.
[00:41:20] Elena Maria Hert: Exactly. Yes.
[00:41:22] David Crabill: Well, I see that you’re in Amanda’s digital product community course.
[00:41:28] And you also have a, a site where you, you sell informational products. Can you share a little more about that?
[00:41:36] Elena Maria Hert: Yes. Yes. I in, so I’m following Amanda since 2023, I think. And, uh, last year in November, I joined her uh, digital products community because, you know, sometimes it’s exhausting and very hard just to bake, bake, bake nonstop in order to make money. And I see that digital products are working very well nowadays and I said, let’s give it a try. for example, when I don’t have orders for baking, maybe I can make money with digital products. So, Yeah, I joined her community and went through her courses and I have this stand store. shop, European Bake Delights, and I’m trying to sell their products in order to help other bakers that are in the beginning as I was.
[00:42:34] It’s not something complicated or something very sophisticated that I have there. It’s just easy, easy, products like Baked Goods Calculator is an Excel, uh, sheet with explanations and steps and how I calculate my prices. And I’m thinking that Maybe this can help other bakers that are in the beginning and I’m on Facebook in many Cottage food bakers groups.
[00:43:05] So I see a lot of them having this problem or issue with how do I calculate the price for this and that so they sell but They don’t know the price and they’re asking how much should I charge for this? How much should I charge for that? And to me sounds crazy to start a business and bake and sell stuff, but you don’t know how to calculate the price of what you are selling.
[00:43:33] Then how you are expecting to make money?
[00:43:37] David Crabill: I think it’s getting more and more common for bakers to add an additional revenue stream by selling digital products. I’m just curious, you know, what has been your experience of being in Amanda’s course?
[00:43:51] Elena Maria Hert: Oh, there I met other, bakers. The community is wonderful. All Bakers are helping each other, and Amanda and, uh, Iena they are helping a lot. and I, I learned a lot of things about the digital products, which I didn’t know because I didn’t have any idea. I didn’t know about stand store.
[00:44:12] I didn’t know how to, to make a digital product. I didn’t know how to promote one. I didn’t know anything. For me, it was starting from zero, and Amanda helped a lot. She’s giving great advices, and obviously she knows what she’s doing.
[00:44:32] David Crabill: I just wanted to pause for a quick moment to talk more about Amanda Schonberg and her new course. you can hear her on episode 80 and I can’t think of a better business coach than Amanda. Her course will help you make extra money by adding digital products to your business just like Elena has done. I have reviewed her course portal and I must say, it is the real deal. It’s community, plus content, plus coaching, and in my opinion, it’s worth far more than what she’s charging. Let this be the year that you start to earn extra income and have success the digital way.
[00:45:03] To learn more about Amanda’s course, go to forrager.com/digital. Now back to the episode.
[00:45:14] would you like to eventually get to the point where. You can focus fully on helping people start their own businesses and, get to the point where you’re not selling your own baked goods anymore.
[00:45:27] Elena Maria Hert: No, no, No. I would like to do both. Yeah, I would love maybe to have a, constant or a decent income from digital products and to bake less, but this doesn’t mean that I want to stop baking, no.
[00:45:44] David Crabill: Well, I know that you’ve had a little girl at home as you built this business. what have you learned about prioritizing her while prioritizing the business at the same time?
[00:45:55] Elena Maria Hert: You know, It’s hard and whoever says that, yes, you can create that balance and you just have to organize yourself and no, it’s not true. Because when you have a lot of orders. You can’t just bake for two hours and then uh, spend the rest of your day with your family or with your daughter. You have to finish those orders. So, I had days when I just had to let her play in the house by herself. Of course, there, me supervising her, but I had to be in the kitchen most of the day. Or even sometimes before holidays and I would have loved to make things with her in the kitchen for us for holidays.
[00:46:40] But I didn’t. I had to tell her, sorry, we can’t do it right now. We’ll have to do it later. And then I had to keep my promise and bake with her whatever she wanted after holidays.
[00:46:57] David Crabill: Have you found anything that’s helped make it easier to kind of manage your time?
[00:47:03] Elena Maria Hert: Yes, I got to the point where I decided to spread my orders in such a way that I can make uh, time also to spend with her. Well, Now it’s easier because she’s, in kindergarten from 30 in the morning until 3 o’clock in the afternoon, which gives me enough time to bake. And after she’s coming from kindergarten, we can spend time together.
[00:47:31] But also was, was very hard for me in the beginning because until end of 2022, I didn’t have my green card I wasn’t allowed to work and I wasn’t able to drive and I wasn’t able to go anywhere. , We depended 100 percent on my husband.
[00:47:50] until I got my green card. And after I got my green card, I said well, what’s the point? I have to send her to daycare in order to go to work. And I don’t know. I heard so many scary stories here in U. S. with daycares. And it’s, she’s our only child. And it was hard for me to trust somebody else to take care of her. So, yeah, I wanted her to stay home with me. That’s why even I wanted to start a business or to do something from home that allows me to be home with her.
[00:48:22] David Crabill: Can you share a little bit more about like, the limitations that you had before you got your green card?
[00:48:29] Elena Maria Hert: Well, I was only allowed to drive for six months because I was still having my tourist visa on my passport. But after that you are not allowed to drive, you are not allowed to work, you are not allowed to have a social security card. You are not allowed to have anything until you have the green card.
[00:48:53] David Crabill: And what was the feeling like when you finally got your green card?
[00:48:57] Elena Maria Hert: That, I can finally live, because, coming From a country where you are independent, where you can do whatever, you can have a bank account, you can drive, you can work, you can vote, you can do whatever you want, and then you come here and What’s hard is that Billings is not a very big city like, In Bucharest, for example, I didn’t need a car because there you can Take all the public transportation or walk anywhere you want. Here you depend on a car 100 percent and not being able to drive and just waiting for my husband to come from work in order to go to Walmart to buy something, it was very hard.
[00:49:48] I couldn’t take my daughter to have playdates with other kids, all the time we had to invite other kids to our house. Yeah, it was, I don’t know, it’s like you are breathing again, finally.
[00:50:03] David Crabill: It’s just so interesting because you know a lot of times We think about people come to the United States have more freedom, maybe from a country that felt oppression, but just having that kind of the opposite experience for you
[00:50:17] it’s just interesting to see how, how difficult that was for you, for that period of time,
[00:50:23] Elena Maria Hert: yeah, it is stressful and you have to go through a process. You have to gather a lot of evidence, papers pictures story, information, declarations from family, friends. A lot of things in order to compile them together and, uh, and submit all this information to immigration. And after that they check.
[00:50:50] And this checking is a very long process, took them one year.
[00:50:55] David Crabill: What do you feel drives you to continue pursuing the business? Because it sounds like, you obviously are primarily focused on being a mom and you also at least for a couple of years, there doesn’t sound like it was really generating a lot of money, you know, while you’re trying to build the business.
[00:51:16] So what do you feel like is really pushing you? To pursue the business.
[00:51:22] Elena Maria Hert: So, I’m a proud Romanian and I love sharing my traditions and my countries baked goods and food and everything. So I really want people to, to try them. And sometimes I get customers that, they tried some of my baked goods and they tell me, Oh, the taste reminded me of my grandma when she was baking these, or my mother used.
[00:51:52] to make this for me when I was a little kid. And this makes me so happy because I know how it is to discover something that brings back childhood memories.
[00:52:05] David Crabill: Well, You finally got to the point where it sounds like your business is really starting to take off. Where would you like to see it go in the future?
[00:52:15] Elena Maria Hert: My dream is to have. A coffee shop slash pastry shop where I can bring people together and have their coffees and try my European baked goods, but I don’t know if this will really happen.
[00:52:31] David Crabill: Well, you never know. You didn’t think that you would start a cottage food business when people first suggested it to you. However, many years ago,
[00:52:39] Elena Maria Hert: Yeah, that’s true also.
[00:52:42] David Crabill: Well, You’ve been at this for a few years now What advice would you give to another cottage food entrepreneur who’s just starting out?
[00:52:50] Elena Maria Hert: Never give up, because if you enjoy doing something and you have a dream, you, you have a target, don’t give up because, you know, in these two years I had so many days when I was telling my husband, that’s it, next month I stop, I’m not doing this anymore, no, because I’m not making any money and why I’m doing it and nobody’s, nobody cares and why do I have to continue sharing and.
[00:53:18] I mean, It was very hard, but even after all this time, here I am, continue doing it and updating menu and selling more and so, yeah, never give up because you, you never know what the future can bring you.
[00:53:37] David Crabill: Well, thank you so much Elena for coming on the show now if people would like to learn more about you where can they find you or how can they reach out?
[00:53:48] Elena Maria Hert: They can find me on Facebook, European Baked Delights. Also on Instagram or on TikTok @european_baked_ delights.
[00:54:02] David Crabill: Awesome! Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing with us today.
[00:54:07] Elena Maria Hert: Thank you. Have a nice day.
[00:54:11] David Crabill: That wraps up another episode of The Forrager Podcast.
[00:54:14] For more information about this episode, go to forrager.com/podcast/137.
[00:54:21] And if you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a quick moment right now and leave me your view on Apple Podcasts. It doesn’t have to be a long review, but it’s truly the best way to support this show and will help others like you find this podcast.
[00:54:33] And finally, if you’re thinking about selling your own homemade food, check out my free mini course where I walk you through the steps you need to take to get a cottage food business off the ground. To get the course, go to cottagefoodcourse.com.
[00:54:45] Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you in the next episode.
